That the ‘old boys network’, as Paul once called it, exists in the USA too doesn’t surprise me, but here I’m sure it is more pervasive, being too rooted in the Italian mind, especially in the South.

Yes, generally people (me included) idealise things too much. Like, for example, a supposed superiority of Europeans (I wonder if Falcon will read this.)

**This superiority does not exist**

We like to trace the origin of democracy to the Greeks, because we consider them the first Europeans – good ideas can come from anywhere, as Falcon said. Truth is Europeans and the West had big power and technology for some time. That time is almost over, whether we like it or not.

And yes, for many poor Europeans there was no way back.

You Rosaria, you could go back to Italy, but have decided to stay in the USA. I remember one moving comment of yours here on the psychological price you had to pay for that.

These were interesting responses. I’m not versed in eastern thought, so I have a lot to learn. Even here in the land of democracy, it might be easier to be recognized, but it is not often. People like Barack Obama are the exception, not the rule. I personally had to scratch my way to an administrative position after decades of teaching, jobs always bestowed on relatives, and personal connections.

Democracy is an idealized concept, like sainthood. It would be nice to have representative government for all people. But elections cost money; and money buys contacts.

The flight of Europeans to the New World was mostly economic, I think. They had nothing to lose by shipping out. What they didn’t know was the struggle awaiting them. The fact that Mexicans and even Canadians can try it across the border, and go back if things don’t work out, that fact was never an option for the poor folks from Europe.

I didn’t want to start a debate on that.

The ‘bon sauvage’ is a myth, I agree. Europeans began to reflect since they met other cultures in the New World. Montaigne is eloquent and modern on it, long before Rousseau. And Europeans more often thought these folks were bad, non ‘bon’, infidel and had to be converted (and exploited) in all ways.

A state of nature, doesn’t it exist always? We all are always nature. No distinction between Man and other animals etc., we are only the most powerful species. As for stone age people, yes, the only difference being our culture is more complex.

This I was thinking, since such complexity is *bugging* me these days.

Italian bureaucracy: God save us!
(Dio ce ne scampi e liberi)

Only, a few of these nations had cruel executions and tortures, while others had not (not that classical Antiquity was mild in its punishments etc.)