Permanences IIIa. Sex and the City (of Rome)

Callipygian Venus. Fair use

Ancient Greek-Romans had a totally different attitude towards sex (so the minor or the puritanical shouldn’t read further). It suffices to have a look at these statues, both beautiful and erotic, to intuitively grasp a sensuality open and entirely different from prevalent contemporary Western manners. The beauty and natural perfection of these bodies convey in fact the idea - a very simple idea, this very gifted Greek student I recently met would say - that sex wasn’t perceived as lewd or licentious; it was felt as one of the joys of life, it is so simple, as simple (and beautiful) as a Greek temple.
Thence sex was enjoyed so naturally though in ways most contemporary folks couldn’t even imagine, especially when we think that these statues were somehow linked to rituals and religion. Above we can admire the perfect classical beauty of Venus Kallipygos; below, the statue of a Satyr (which a female Roman friend chose among a set and assured me it was a pretty good erotic sample. I couldn’t but yield to her superior discernment).

Satyr. Lowe res. Fair use

Venus was the Goddess of love (both carnal and spiritual) while a Satyr, according to Wikipedia (a very good tool for initial research, but nothing more) is “a Dionysian creature lover of wine, women and boys, and ready for every physical pleasure…”. Also child satyrs existed (which seems such a sad thing today, to all of us) taking part in Bacchanalian/Dionysian religious rituals, which usually (or sometimes) involved orgies as well.

At this point I’m really sure that every reader cannot but agree that the Greek-Romans had a VERY different attitude towards sex. No doubt about that. An ENTIRELY different attitude.

lupaottimigut1.jpg

If we could forget these are classical statues and regarded them just as they appear to our senses we’d surely see them as porn or pornographic. According to Wikipedia “the concept of pornography as understood today did not exist until the Victorian era. …When large scale excavations of Pompeii were undertaken in the 1860s, much of the erotic art of the Romans came to light, shocking the Victorians who saw themselves as the intellectual heirs of the Roman Empire. They did not know what to do with the frank depictions of sexuality, and endeavored to hide them away ….. The moveable objects were locked away in the Secret Museum in Naples, Italy.

(If you want to know more about the erotic artefacts found in the ancient Roman town of Pompeii, you can read this post of ours).

I do not quite agree with Wikipedia about how and when the modern concept of pornography was conceived, seeming this to me a totally Anglo-Saxon centred observation, forgetful of how history can be ancient. I might be wrong (or right) but who the hell cares, chissenefrega, this whole Victorian thing being so incredibly funny.
I can see these prudish Victorians who felt themselves as the heirs of the Romans (which somehow they were, at least in my view) and who much to their horror found out how perverted these Romans had been (at least in their view), while together with the Italians they were uncovering these sexy statues and paintings.
I can imagine their shocked pale faces and especially I’m fantasizing about their shamefully and hastily helping the Neapolitans to hide somewhere the horrendous, abominable truth.

The Neapolitans incidentally were then probably a bit laughing at them as well, being of course much less disturbed than the Victorians by all these “frank depictions of sexuality” (dear reader, try to guess why …).

Aphrodite of the Beautiful Buttocks. Fair use

Getting back to the Ancients, this Aphrodite of the Beautiful Buttocks is uncovering herself and looking back (and down) in order to evaluate her perfect buttocks. The reason is again very simple (but very erotic, I’ll confess). All originated from a buttock contest between two beautiful sisters, so, who knows, the statue dedicated to Venus-Aphrodite might exactly represent both the winner and her buttocks. I mean - and of course it is mere historical interest - there is a chance we are looking at her real ass. I am pretty sure she evaluated her rear even more evidently since statues were mostly painted in full colour, thence the direction of her gaze was probably even more visible (pupils etc. being painted too).

This cult of Venus-Aphrodite with beautiful buttocks appeared in Greek Syracuse (Sicily, Italy), according to some ancient author, because this is where the sisters apparently lived. Again, needless to say, it would be inconceivable nowadays to create a sanctuary (or a holy place) to a goddess because of a pair of sexy buttocks (read in Wikipedia the whole peculiar story of the two lovely sisters).

Venus was the goddess of beauty, fertility and love. Roman Venus was born around Lavinium not by chance, since there Aeneas, the great Roman ancestor (son of Venus, by the way) may there be landed and there surely lived. So technically the Romans were children of Venus (but also of Mars, God of War: what a weird mix, isn’t it). This I’m thinking while strolling between the Colosseum, to my left, and the temple of Venus and Roma, to my right, between these two symbols of Life and Death: how complex the Romans were.
Greek Aphrodite was instead born in Cyprus (incidentally where the Greek student comes from, but I do not believe in signs, like Brasilian Coelho does).

Young couples gathered close to Venus temples for petting, necking and even coupling. Youths were probably discreet but what is interesting is that their loving felt somehow enhanced, even sanctified by the presence of the Goddess, something which is again unimaginable today. Think of a contemporary scenario where teenagers flock close to a Catholic or an Anglican church, in spring time, or in any time, for petting and sex. I mean, even the mere thought of it could offend true Christians.
Of course I do ask for pardon though please it would also be nice if you religious people did some effort as well. We are not here to offend religion(s) or to make a porn site out this blog (which could make us richer though not necessarily happier). We are here to talk about our Western roots. And it happened these ancient Greek-Romans had entirely different sexual views.
Is it bad? Is it good? Difficult to say. We definitely prefer the ancient views, but it is our personal opinion. We love to think Sex is beauty, love and sex are a sublime joy of life that shouldn’t be necessarily related to reproduction (like too many Popes endlessly tried to teach us).

lupaottimigut1.jpg

Ok, one might say, if it’s true that these were our western roots, what the hell has then happened? Why had we this oppressive revolution that made one of the joys of life into something to be ashamed of? Was it because of the Victorians? Was it because of the Christian priests and intellectuals? Maybe in India, yes, Victorians had some influence. Here Kama Sutra, the first great text about love and sexual intercourse, was created- beautiful, poetic and scientific - and the Victorians arrived with their not entirely positive influence in this field of human life (if what Wikipedia says is true …I need some feed-back here by Indians readers lol).

As far as the West I am sure the answer is to be found since the times when the Roman Empire became a Christian Roman Empire, from Emperor Constantine on (4th century AD: no trace of the Victorians yet lol). Not immediately though. It took some time…to become totally repressed it surely took some time.

One last thing. Is anywhere to be found any remnants of this classical freer attitude towards sex? I believe so. We have said (Braudel has said) that great civilisations never die. Plus we have entitled this post as Permanences III. We do not want to reveal too much about the sex post num. 2 though.

So, how can we conclude this writing about sex? 1) With this Roman copy of Castor and Pollux, or Dioscuri (youths of Zeus) by Praxiteles, Madrid (see below), which has also been enthusiastically approved by my female friend. 2) With Lucretius’ initial prayer to Venus.

Lucretius is a great Roman poet. From his verses you can get a good feel of how a true Ancient Roman felt about Venus. So it is a pretty good conclusion of this Sex and the Romans num. 1 post. If you are lucky enough to appreciate these verses you’ll get a unique experience, a real time-machine experience. This also classics can offer, a time-machine experience.

Try then hard to read these words attentively. You might be able to penetrate the mysteries of a lost (though still living, though still living, wonder why) arcane world….

Man of Roma

Dioskouroi. Madrid. Praxiteles (Roman copy) fair use

Lucretius’ De Rerum Natura. Initial invocation to Venus.

“Mother of Rome, delight of Gods and men,
Dear Venus that beneath the gliding stars
Makest to teem the many-voyaged main
And fruitful lands- for all of living things
Through thee alone are evermore conceived,
Through thee are risen to visit the great sun-
Before thee, Goddess, and thy coming on,
Flee stormy wind and massy cloud away,
For thee the daedal Earth bears scented flowers,
For thee waters of the unvexed deep
Smile, and the hollows of the serene sky
Glow with diffused radiance for thee!

For soon as comes the springtime face of day,
And procreant gales blow from the West unbarred,
First fowls of air, smit to the heart by thee,
Foretoken thy approach, O thou Divine,
And leap the wild herds round the happy fields
Or swim the bounding torrents. Thus amain,
Seized with the spell, all creatures follow thee
Whithersoever thou walkest forth to lead,
And thence through seas and mountains and swift streams,
Through leafy homes of birds and greening plains,
Kindling the lure of love in every breast,
Thou bringest the eternal generations forth,
Kind after kind. And since ’tis thou alone
Guidest the Cosmos, and without thee naught
Is risen to reach the shining shores of light,
Nor aught of joyful or of lovely born,
Thee do I crave co-partner in that verse
Which I presume on Nature to compose
For Memmius mine, whom thou hast willed to be
Peerless in every grace at every hour-

Wherefore indeed, Divine one, give my words
Immortal charm. Lull to a timely rest
O’er sea and land the savage works of war,
For thou alone hast power with public peace
To aid mortality; since he who rules
The savage works of battle, puissant Mars,
How often to thy bosom flings his strength
O’ermastered by the eternal wound of love-
And there, with eyes and full throat backward thrown,
Gazing, my Goddess, open-mouthed at thee,
Pastures on love his greedy sight, his breath
Hanging upon thy lips. Him thus reclined
Fill with thy holy body, round, above!
Pour from those lips soft syllables to win
Peace for the Romans, glorious Lady, peace!.”

Of The Nature of Things [De Rerum Natura]
by Lucretius [Titus Lucretius Carus]
(Initial invocation to Venus)
Translated by William Ellery Leonard
January, 1997 [E-text #785]
Project Gutenberg Text
Italian version of this post

The URI to TrackBack this entry is: http://manofroma.wordpress.com/2007/10/13/permanences-iii-sex-and-the-city-of-rome/trackback/

RSS feed for comments on this post.

15 Comments Leave a comment.

  1. On October 16, 2007 at 7:30 am Ashish Said:

    To borrow one of Ishmeet’s phrases, “We are the people who invented one of the most known sex manual’s in the world and yet are one of the most strictest societies when sex comes up.” lol.

    The reason for this may be the rise of the “Priest”. People infact are against sexual education in schools thinking that their kids will get “bad habits”. *rolls eyes* The fact that their kids can get the information from somewhere else doesn’t seem to hit them. lol.

    And I don’t think the Victorian’s are to blame, Indian society had already begun to think of sex as something vulgar quite before that if ancient texts, poems and stories give any clue.

    I’ve heard somewhere that people used to worship Aphrodite by having sex with her priestesses… but probably a bit far-fetched.

  2. On October 16, 2007 at 7:15 pm manofroma Said:

    @ Ashish
    I will reply more thoroughly to your comment…in the meanwhile, what do you mean by “if ancient texts, poems and stories give any clue”? Did these ancient texts already prepared the path for sexual repression, before the Victorians arrived?

  3. On October 18, 2007 at 9:51 pm manofroma Said:

    @ Ashish
    The rise of the Priest…so it seems the same old problem everywhere.
    I’m not blaming the Victorians, though, I was just having some fun with them. Actually I admire them a lot, and it is not by chance that in order to get, so to say, *imperial inspiration* when writing my first presentation post on imperial Rome, I kept listening on and on to Sir Edward W. Elgar’s *Enigma Variations*, a bit romantic for the Roman spirit but, nonetheless, an outstanding quintessence in my view of what is both imperial and Victorian. I adore Elgar’s music. I really do.

    Of course the English and the Italians have totally different habits, it is a sort of love-hate relationship we both have, but I won’t bore you sweet eastern Indian guys with these silly neurotic European things.

    What really struck me when I first came to India - I was 28-29 - was watching these Indian women (beautiful, I’ll admit) advancing in sea water with *clothes on*; while moments earlier I was staring on a picture book at the incredibly astonishing carvings of Khajuraho monuments. Something didn’t quite fit.

    I mean, I do not know if Khajuraho is a set of palaces or temples or both. All I know, I may be wrong, is that no civilization *ever dared* to show such incredible sexual things. So Ishmeet is probably right, and you are right, although it is not yet clear to me what the hell has happened, it is not at all clear lol.

    All the best, Ashish

  4. On October 19, 2007 at 7:29 am Ashish Said:

    Did these ancient texts already prepared the path for sexual repression, before the Victorians arrived?
    Well I’m no researcher but if you start to read indian texts and stories since 500 Ad you’ll see that sex is regarded as something utterly disgusting and sin as the millenium progresses. Of course modern day editing may have butchered it but you can see between the lines that it was written that way. It was during this time that Hinduism took firm grip of the country. You may remember that Buddhism and Jainism were born in India, but during this time Buddhists were regarded as something inferior [which they are to this day] or in short the time of the rise of the priest.

    Thing is Women were never highly regarded and still aren’t regarded in some parts. Half the nation still lives in the dark ages while the other half lives on as if a virtually different nation.

  5. On October 19, 2007 at 8:41 am manofroma Said:

    @Ashish
    >Half the nation still lives in the dark ages while the other half lives on as if a virtually different nation.
    Well, I am no pro researcher neither, but do not scorn too much the ‘dark ages’ side of your huge country. In there, I think, is still maybe the imprinting (and the peculiar richness) of your civilization(s). Do not think, I mean, only ‘modern’ is good.

  6. On October 20, 2007 at 2:04 pm Ashish Said:

    Manofroma: I did not mean dark ages as in that. Huge sections of the nation [barring the cities, everywhere] caste, religion, child marriages, law & order, the “thinking” are problems. Not just tiny ones, but full-scale problems. The east demands independence, the south & the west lives in ignorance, half the north is plagued by militants while the other half is plagued by the aforementioned things. This is India where Babudom & religion plays a very huge role in the rural parts.

    On one hand we are one of the growing IT hubs, on the other one of the most backward societies when it comes to human rights. Most of the government jobs are given on a caste basis. As usual Politics uses everyone else for its own good be it Dalit ministers to for showcases or keeping all the babus happy….

  7. On October 26, 2007 at 1:26 pm 1ofURitSTUDentS Said:

    I did not read this post…

    I was too busy looking at the delicious booty on that statue!!!

  8. On October 27, 2007 at 7:01 am ManofRoma Said:

    @1ofURitSTUDentS
    Ah ah. I know who you are. You are really something.

    @All
    Let me walk a bit on the mountains around Rome: I’ll interact later a bit.

    All the best

  9. On January 10, 2008 at 6:16 pm Falcon Said:

    Some interesting comments I see over here AND SOME OF THEM,in my view are quite misleading…

    @Ashish
    >> “We are the people who invented one of the most known sex manual’s in the world and yet are one of the most strictest societies when sex comes up.” lol.
    …Ya true but u can laugh only if u can laugh at us being hypocrite… As for Kamasutra …I read some where … that the orignal manuscript has only three chapters that deal with SEX… rest are more about for elay and afterplay…

    @ man of Roma..
    Khajuraho is believed to be a set of temples

    @ Ashish
    >>Well I’m no researcher but if you start to read indian texts and stories since 500 Ad you’ll see that sex is regarded as something utterly disgusting and sin as the millenium progresses…

    I really don’t know what is the basis of such a statement.. 500 AD was the ERA of The Gupta Dynasty… the golden era in the indian history…
    They built several temles many of them being Sexually explict… Best of the examples can be seen in the rock cut caves and temples like Ajanta and Ellora.. which shows traditioal indian beauty … the hema malini types with a fuller bossoms and filled buttocks…not the malnutritioned Ashwariyas or Models…

    >>It was during this time that Hinduism took firm grip of the country. You may remember that Buddhism and Jainism were born in India, but during this time Buddhists were regarded as something inferior [which they are to this day or in short the time of the rise of the priest.

    You seem to be wrong here too …see Guptas..were hindu kings but in NO WAY that made hinduism make a grip in India… Budhism was the dominant religion in India and is evident from thew rise of world class Universities like Nalanda, vikramshila, etc.. which were essentially maintained by the Budhist monks.. though teachers were there from other religions also… And these universities recieved generous grant from the Gupta rulers.. Again the system did not exclude sex completely from the teaching…
    FYI remember harrsh Vardhana embraced Budhism… in 8th century… don’t think so budhism was treated as unfair religion…
    Also right from Mauryan times may be even earlier kings have embraced budhism… so obviously it wass not a looked down upon religion…

    Again fall of woman from the indian society started in medivial India with rise of Rajput and advent of Islam… We had no purdah system before that, they were allowed to particpate in yajnas,choose her husband, and take proffession of her choice.., remember leelavati daughter of Brahmgupta,was a mathematician though last point is dated quite earlier.
    And perhaps Hinduism is the only religion in the world where woman is allowed to give her child for adoption without father/husband or any male representative being present…

  10. On January 10, 2008 at 8:36 pm ManofRoma Said:

    @Falcon
    Dear Falcon, welcome back and happy new year!

    All you say is very interesting to read, although I know so little about Indian history, so I just watch you two guys discuss it. At first Ashish and I disagreed on one element: my opinion was that India was more or less freer and only when Great Britain (the Victorians) arrived etc. things got stricter on sexual matters (he instead said that this sort of sexual puritanism appeared much earlier and that the Victorians were not to blame).

    I based my (superficial, I know) opinion on 2 things: 1) some talking I had with some Indian man of the road 30 years ago, when I visited Bombay with my wife and 2) some comment I had read in newspapers, in some books and in the adorable French Blue Guide I always brought with me during all my far eastern trips. I loved that old-fashioned French Blue Guide, very culture and knowledge oriented and much less practical (than guides are today).

    All the best

  11. On March 3, 2008 at 7:24 pm Sex and the city (of Rome). A conclusion? « Man of Roma Said:

    [...] our focus to the matter discussed in Sex and the city (of Rome) 1, 2, 3a and 3b, I heard this sentence in a History Channel documentary war film: “An army of Don [...]

  12. On March 11, 2008 at 8:17 am rajendramc Said:

    excellent want to see more to know more

  13. On March 11, 2008 at 3:30 pm ManofRoma Said:

    @rajendramic
    Well, there are other posts concerning “Sex and the city (of Rome)”. They let you know more, I hope. Here they are:
    Sex and the city of Rome 2
    Sex and the city of Rome 3
    Sex and the city of Rome 4

    All the best

  14. On May 9, 2008 at 12:07 pm pancime · Satyr Said:

    [...] (courtesy manofroma) [...]

  15. On June 17, 2008 at 11:34 am Random Stuff « Man of Roma Said:

    [...] German slave. Getting back to a typical Sex and the city (of Rome) topic, I read in a blog that a US high school teacher used to describe Ancient Rome as a sequence [...]

Leave a Comment